Podcast Friday - Green Growth is possible

[frandroid]

I have so many episodes to post here. Instead of trying to make a mega-post, I'll reduce the mountain one pebble at a time.

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One of the maddening problems that people who want to fight global warming face is twofold:
1) the people who think greens are asking that we stop all consumption
2) the greens who are fundamentally asking that, even though they know they can't just say that out loud.

I found this Ezra Klein interview of Hannah Ritchie quite interesting:
Is Green Growth Possible?

She debunks a lot of received ideas about what is and isn't possible, and why every step we take is important even if we exceed +1.5C by 2030 (if we haven't exceeded it already...) Of course we must also defeat capitalism, and AI is a new and potent threat (which I suspect is going to resolve itself much faster than anticipated, due to lack of patience from Wall Street plus efficiency advances in AI itself), but these battles are not over, and she explains why every gain matters.

Comments

[sabotabby]

oooh, I need this. I share your framing.

[frandroid]

I keep wanting to stop listening to Ezra Klein but he keeps bringing on good guests and asking them astute questions. :)

[ioplokon]

I agree the ai bubble looks prone to pop, but the underlying incentives that created it remain. I have a pet theory that crypto and genai are partially perverse offshoots of the green revolution (cheaper renewables) & efficiency gains. Basically, efficiency never brings consumption down on its own due to induced demand.

(Which I don't think is a "stop all consumption" argument, more that we don't actually reduce emissions in a laissez-faire system)

[ioplokon]

(Tho "stop all consumption" does appeal to me on an emotional level bc I am prone to asceticism and self-denial, as a good Catholic boy)

[cactus_rs]

Big same, even if I'm not a good Catholic boy.

[frandroid]

LOL of course it does :)

[frandroid]

There's a name for this! The Jevons paradox!

It would be nice if we got rid of all fossil fuels before this paradox hit these economics. I think this is where we really need to keep going forward with increasing carbon taxes.

[altamira16]

It frustrates me that some folks like to paint ALL environmentalism as if it is degrowth environmentalism.

But in some areas, degrowth needs to be a thing. I don't care if people want $5 dresses, that type of fast fashion needs to go away.

[frandroid]

Yeah. We need some sort of anti-obsolescence laws, and other laws about standards to make many consumables re-usable. The fight to standardize USB-C as the standard for cellphone charging ports in Europe was stupidly long but was a good first step.