reflections on communism

[frandroid]

If the Church worked so well as a system to ensure obedience and the good functioning of the economic system, why did Marx reject it? Think of the awesome power of Catholicism and Communism banding together instead of opposing each other. The social gospel would have achieved total world domination, creating a new Eden on Earth.

Ahem. Still...?

Comments

[poetofthefuture.livejournal.com]

Isn't that what liberation theology is all about?

[frandroid.livejournal.com]

I hadn't thought about that. Sounds like you nailed it right on the head :]

[see-my-glock.livejournal.com]

anything promoting blind faith in celestial beings [and hatin' on science]is directly opposing communism. it would be hard to make that work, but i suppose it could, even if i dont like it.

[seaya.livejournal.com]

Not necessarily.

See Latin America.

The Church there is not what it is in Rome. And the folk ways of worshipping in it are especially not like that.

[see-my-glock.livejournal.com]

I dont know a lot about that, nor am i sure how to look it up. Would you please elaborate or link me to a good resource?

[frandroid.livejournal.com]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

Other things vaguely related to communism

[dubaiwalla.livejournal.com]

Any thoughts about this?

One guy on the BBC World Service today morning said that the monarchy's fall was now inevitable, adding that the Maoists were likely to wait for an opportune moment in which to just stroll into Kathmandu and be welcomed.

Re: Other things vaguely related to communism

[frandroid.livejournal.com]

Hahaha. Amazing icon hehe.

I think that the potential for the Maoists to walk in and take over are inflated, but I would be more surprised if they didn't try than if they did.

brownfist here is the local Nepali insurgency expert :)

I think that whichever way, Gyanendra will have to give more power than he had before imposing direct rule.

Re: Other things vaguely related to communism

[dubaiwalla.livejournal.com]

Thanks, it was inspired by your 'Not harrysheep' icon.

I had a 25-minute conversation today with my office's politically aware Nepali security guard, a man who left the country because the Maoists would've killed him if he'd stayed on (he used to work for the police). He thinks that a constitutional monarchy will be put in place, and that the Maoists will peacefully contest elections. The next few days should prove to be interesting.

[brownfist.livejournal.com]

I personally believe that Marx rejected the Church because he wanted to achieve complete human liberation. One cannot be fully liberated if one alienates him/herself into God. I agree that in the short term there can be alliances between progressive religious and communist organizations, hell, communists can even utilize religious metaphors (although this normally doesnt work out too well), but finally the goal of communism is to see a withering away of religion. i dont think we should abolish religion, but the conditions that allow religion to thrive like poverty etc.

[baal-shem-ra.livejournal.com]

"why did Marx reject it? "
Part of the superstructure of an exploitative system and all that.
Also, Rome would have been weary of allying with Communism. Talk of abolishing of all religions will do that. Now, abolishing of all religions *but* Catholicism, maybe Rome would have gone for that.

Neither Communist nor Christians are known for their pragmatic strategising or for their pragmatic anything. There's the Platonic idealism getting in the way of Christians and the German idealism getting in the way of Communists.

To take an example, look at French far left political parties, can there really be major practical differences between Worker's Struggle, the Revolutionary Communist League, the French Communist Party, the Left Radical Party and the Workers' Party when it comes to issues of the day or even on the far horizon? Together, they would have had nearly as many votes as the Socialist Party or the National front in 2002. Instead, they're small and disorganised.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_politics

[theoria.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I understand the question. I'm not familiar of any argument of Marx's that claims that the Church ensured "the good functioning of the economic system". Do recall, that as a mode of legitimation, the Church operated in the feudal mode of production. Marx has no love for feudalism, and you shouldn't either. See his "Contribution to a Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right" (1843) and the first manuscript in the Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts (1844).

[frandroid.livejournal.com]

It was a poorly worded question... I mean it's pretty tongue in cheek to start with, and as brownfist mentioned, Marx had a genuine desire for human liberation, so from that perspective, the Church is out. Thinking a bit more about it, I have more in mind actual communist regimes, say, Stalin's for example.

But I should have specified that I'm just fucking the proverbial dog... I was thinking about why authoritarian regimes would not use existing oppressive structures rather than combat them. In the end, I'm down with the opium analysis.

poetofthefuture did bring up liberation theology, and along that line, I was also thinking a bit about the United Church's social gospel that led to the creation of the CCF and the NDP as progressive examples, but that is kind of besides the point.

[theoria.livejournal.com]

Existing structures are the old elite. Where did the ranking clergy come from in the Catholic Church? The nobility. Who is the enemy of the people? The nobility. &c.

[theoria.livejournal.com]

Oh, and "On the Jewish Question," of course.